DEF tank heater

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Chief409
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DEF tank heater

Post by Chief409 »

With a freezing point of 12 degrees F, I'm curious about the operation of a DEF tank heater. Is this standard, or part of the engine heater option.

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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Mike Clay »

In the GM world its a standard part of the truck and Im sure Ford is the same way. People in cold climates have had problems with it freezing but again in GM land they have been working on a more robust heating system and more insulation on the tank. Problem is def fluid does not like heat it breaks down parts of the fluid then the sensors pick it up as bad def fluid. 8-} From what I have heard the systems are working but it was how the sensors were setup that was some of the problems. On the GM's it does not heat the def tank when plugged in it goes off its own heating system when the truck is running. I notice when I start my truck there is no def pump pressure until you drive down the road a ways. Do not know what determine when it comes on whether its time, miles or what.
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Travelers »

Mine froze earlier and caused a sorts of problems. Once frozen, it separates and does not remix when thawed. Had to drain the tank and install new def.
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Traveler II »

That sound like, JUST WHAT I DON'T NEED IN MINNESOTA, I think I will keep my 08 until they get the bugs worked out. :-? Thou, I sure would like an exhaust brake. :((
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by BMullins46 »

Check out the Banks system for your truck Jim, it's cheaper than a new truck.
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Mike Clay »

I think they have come up with a fix for the freezing def most of it had to do with how the sensors were set but they are adding a more robust heater in the new trucks.
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Travelers »

Mike Clay wrote:I think they have come up with a fix for the freezing def most of it had to do with how the sensors were set
I guess I'll find out in the next few months. :))
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Mike Clay »

Interesting article and all you ever wanted to know about def.


MORE ABOUT DEF
• What is it, and how does it work? – DEF is 32.7% aqueous urea blended with 67.5% de-ionized water. It reduces the amount of NOx in exhaust gas by turning to ammonia and carbon dioxide when small amounts are injected upstream of the catalytic converter. The ammonia works with the SCR catalyst, converting NOx into nitrogen and water (both harmless).
• What is the advantage of SCR/DEF technology? – SCR engines are more efficient, partially due to being in a more “optimal” state of tune, and partially because the need to “regenerate” the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) is less frequent. Regeneration requires injecting additional diesel fuel just ahead of the DPF, which does nothing for creating energy or for the motivation of the vehicle. It is simply a fuel mileage loss.
• Can I make DEF instead of buying it? – Probably not. The purity of ingredients and the exact blend ratio is critical to insuring that the NOx reduction is correct.
• Since it is mostly water, will it freeze? – You bet it will. DEF freezes at 12 degrees F. The urea and water will freeze (and thaw out) at the same time and temperature. Freezing won’t degrade DEF, but….the system won’t work with frozen DEF. During operation, vehicle mounted heaters will keep the DEF from freezing. But, if left sitting for long periods of time, and in low enough temperatures, the DEF will freeze. Once the vehicle is started, it will not be inhibited. The heaters will help expedite the thawing of the DEF. By the way….you cannot add anything to DEF to keep it from freezing. This would defeat the function of the DEF and the SCR system.
• How should DEF be stored? – Exposure to sunlight and temperature will affect the shelf life of DEF. Storage between 10 degrees and 90 degrees F typically results in a shelf life of one (1) year. Stabile storage temperatures of 75 degrees can extend that period to two (2) years. But, higher temps – 95 degrees and higher – can result in a six month life. DEF packages have a date code that indicates when the product was made.
• Is DEF hazardous? – While you wouldn’t want to drink it, it is basically safe to handle. If you should ingest it by accident, do not induce vomiting, but do call a physician. DEF is nontoxic, nonpolluting, nonflammable, and non-hazardous. Should you spill it, pick it up with an absorbent material such as sand, and then dispose of the sand in a suitable container. If you spill it on your vehicle, rinse it off with water. It is corrosive, and will attack copper, brass, and some other materials. This is why the DEF tank and lines are polyethylene.
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Traveler II »

BMullins46 wrote:Check out the Banks system for your truck Jim, it's cheaper than a new truck.
Last year on our way to California I had contacted Banks and made arrangements to have their exhaust brakes installed. After posted it on the forum and hearing about problems I might have with our Allison I back away from it.
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by dieselfreak21 »

Traveler II wrote:
BMullins46 wrote:Check out the Banks system for your truck Jim, it's cheaper than a new truck.
Last year on our way to California I had contacted Banks and made arrangements to have their exhaust brakes installed. After posted it on the forum and hearing about problems I might have with our Allison I back away from it.
I would get a hold of PACBRAKE and then check PPE or Suncoast if you want to tweak the tranny stuff more. Banks isn't horrible but they aren't as good as their hype they spend millions to create. I have even heard some people have talked a dealer into flashing the programming of the allison with the engine break shifting and converter lock up logic but they usually know somebody. Any of it is cheaper than a new truck plus you don't have to deal with DEF.
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Traveler II »

Sorry, I have to admit that I'm not much of a gear head. Would the PACBRAKE work on my 2008 Chevy better than the Banks system would? I got the impress last year that the Banks could create problems with my Allison, would the PACBRAKE work better?
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Osborne »

Just straight pipe it, would be whole lot less head ache, lol
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by dieselfreak21 »

Traveler II wrote:Sorry, I have to admit that I'm not much of a gear head. Would the PACBRAKE work on my 2008 Chevy better than the Banks system would? I got the impress last year that the Banks could create problems with my Allison, would the PACBRAKE work better?
I don't have direct experience with it, with an allison just what I have read about it. PAC seem to be the best one of the market. I can't remember if the 08 had it built into the turbo and they have controler or if it is add on piece. The problem with auto's is locking up the converter. PAC I think has a controler if not PPE or Suncoast do to work in conjunction with it.
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by bigbunkhouse »

The def has a tank heated and a line heater, they are both standard equipment. The tank has a bladder that allows for expansion and contraction due to freezing. the pump empties the line at shutdown to keep from freezing. The internakl heater can thaw enough def to flow in -20 (ish) degrees within 15 minutes. The truck doesnt use the def during warmup or approxamately the first 20 minutes. Hope that answers ur question Jeff....since def is 30% water of course its gonna freeze
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Re: DEF tank heater

Post by Chief409 »

Thanks Matt. Since I asked this question, I've found a 20M PDF with detailed descriptions of ALL the 6.7 diesel systems, if you want a copy send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send it. As you go through this, first reactions are usually "OMG". Mine was.

Jeff
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2012 F350 Lariat FX4 6.7 Diesel Dually, Crew Cab, LWB, 50 gal Transfer Flow toolbox/tank
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The more I see in my travels, the more I realize there is so much more to see.
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