Towing hard

[jdot360]

Hi folks, hope you can give me some insite.
I have a 2006 f350 dw 4x4 with the 6.0 and a 2004 cardinal platinum 35ckt. I was wandering why it seems to be towing so hard. I list as 10800 empty weight and 14400 gvwr and I seem to have problems pulling it. Also the tires seem to set real close I mean I can hardly get my hand between the front and rear tire on the trailer.Is this normal?
thanks
J.

[Chief409]

Is the space between the tires the same on both sides of the trailer. Are the tires the stock size/rating and wheel diameter. Also, by "towing hard" do you mean lack of power, heavy on the hitch or ...

[jdot360]

The tires are what is listed on the info tag on the camper. LT 235/85r16. The tow hard part is I lose speed going up hills, and as I pulled in to a campground the other day I had to make a hard left going up hill and it really bogged the truck down. Could the breaks be dragging? I know when testing the breaks with the controler they dont lock up like my tag alongs use to. Is my truck big enough? I thought it was looking at all the info I had but you all have a lot more experience with 5ers than I do.

[Chief409]

If the brakes are dragging they'll heat the wheels. You can check for this by using the back (not the palm) of your hand. Since your Bird is a 2004, new to you, and the brakes are not locking on a brake check using the controller you could try this to check them. Pull the breakaway plug and try to move the trailer, it shouldn't budge from a stop. Don't forget to replace the breakaway plug after this. The brakes are getting full power from the trailer battery with the breakaway pulled. If it moves, I would take the Bird to a RV shop ASAP and get the brakes checked. Your 6.0 and my 6.4 are fairly close in power, with the Tow Boss option mine has 4:31 gears though. And power is not a problem, low speed or highway. My Bird max gross is 12,400#, but I'm sure it's been over that once or twice that after Terry gets done packing. If the tire spacing on both sides are the same I guess that should be OK, someone with a trailer with the same weight/axles/tires and rims can say for sure.

[Samsbird]

Sure sounds like something is not right, I have a 2006 F350 SWR 6.0 and my bird is right at 12,800# empty and I have absolutely no power problems at all. I would check to make sure that the turbo is making boost, what pressure is the boost gauge reading whenever you are in a hard pull?

Randall

[The-Bear]

I'm going to answer some of your questions in the order of my experience.

1) The space between the tires.
I have this exact same situation. I have a 2005 29WBLX with the same wheels and tires as yours -- and these are the wheels and tires specified on the VIN plate. HOWEVER there are two things working here to decrease (or increase) that space between the tires.

The first is that not all tires with the same size specifications are actually the same outer diameter. The rim diameters are exactly the same -- otherwise the tires wouldn't fit on the rims. But the actual outside diameters of various tires made by the different manufacturers vary. I don't know why this is so -- and I don't think it should be so -- but it is. And here's my "proof."

Go to Michelin's website and look up your tire size for the Michelin XPS RIB. This is generally the highest rated and most respected tire for trailers. Find the specifications and write down the diameter they list. Then go to BF Goodrich's website and look up the same tire size for their Commercial T/A tire and find the diameter -- and note the difference! The Michelin XPS RIB is nearly an inch larger in diameter as I remember! And get this -- Michelin owns BF Goodrich.

My trailer came with Chinese made Kenda tires -- the same size. They had barely an inch of space between them. I was so concerned with this narrow space I didn't want to put on XPS RIB tires because I was afraid they'd be too large and rub against each other. So for this and other reasons I went with the smaller (and much cheaper) BF Goodrich Commercial T/A tires -- and guess what? They're slightly smaller than the original Kendas so the gap between my tires is now a bit wider than it was off the assembly line.

The other reason I believe we're having these problems is that many Cardinal trailers were originally designed for 15" wheels -- and came with 15" wheels and tires as standard equipment. But one of the optional upgrades was to 16" wheels and tires. The suspension was designed for 15" wheels and tires, but the larger ones just barely fit -- so they offered them.

What I don't know is whether the distance between the axles is adjustable or not. I'll have to crawl under there to make sure, but I think the axles are held on by large "U" bolts -- and for alignment purposes, they can probably be moved a bit -- perhaps as much as an inch. But if so, this is NOT something you should attempt because it would screw-up the alignment and the trailer wouldn't track perfectly behind your truck any more. If the axle spacing can be changed, it should be done by a wheel alignment shop I think.

2) Towing Hard
I get the feeling that this is your first large heavy trailer. Yes it's possible you have dragging brakes or maybe even some other problem. But I suspect that you just don't realize how heavy these trailers are and that even though the powerful diesel engines can tow them at 55, 65 and even 70 mph -- it's HARD work!

Do you have an onboard computer that shows you "instant MPG?" If so, switch to that mode and see how hard the engine has to work. When I'm not towing, my truck usually indicates around 25 mpg at 60 mph on the level. But when I'm towing this trailer, the Instant MPG drops to around 14-16 mpg at 55 mph on the level -- and as low as 4 mpg when going up hills.

I'm not familiar with Ford trucks (I have a GMC with the Allison transmission), but I'm pretty sure your truck has some sort of "Tow/Haul" mode for the transmission. Mine has a button on the end of the shift lever and when I push it I get an icon on the dashboard that looks like a trailer. When you put the transmission into Tow/Haul mode, it changes the shift points so the transmission stays in low gears longer -- which is easier and better for the engine.

When you're towing a heavy trailer you MUST put the transmission into Tow/Haul mode -- or whatever Ford calls it.

My guess is that your brakes are not dragging because if they were you'd have probably already burned them up! But you should have them checked anyway.

I hope this has been helpful.

[bigbunkhouse]

The axles are NOT adjustable. The perch has a hole that a pin from the spring sits in to align it. The only way to adjust is moving the suspension attachment points and components, which is alot of cutting and welding and not for just anybody to do. As far as being hard to tow, we have a v-10 truck from 1999 the lowest power you could get and our trailer is HUGE, we have yet to find somewhere we have trouble with power, there is something deeper happening there if you are having trouble.

[Mike Clay]

Well as stated above I would check how warm/hot the rims are on the trailer when towing, that is a good indicator if there is brake or bearing problems going on. Did you just get the truck and or trailer or is this problem something that just came up?

[Traveler II]

Check your " tack" when towing, somewhere between 55 and 62 mph it should go back to somewhere between 1800 to 2000 rpm's on level highway. If not something is wrong. I've got a Chevy so it might be different with your Ford.

[Future Fulltimers]

Thanks Woody for the information. Last time we were out, something happened to our suspension. I say something because I haven't been able to figure out what. I know the space between the tires is now 5/16" which allows the tires to hit together every time we hit a bump and all 4 shocks have been damaged. I know when I installed the E-Z Flex suspension from Dexter it closed part of that gap. As soon as I get a chance I am going to put the standard equalizer back on and check the rest of the suspension.

[jdot360]

Thanks, Ive got several things to check.I may take my truck to a diesel shop to have it checked out. I'll keep you posted. Also I have a truck scale where I work and I'm going to check all my weights. Thanks again, and maybe we will see each other on the road.

J

[Samsbird]

Great idea, keep us posted on what you find.

Randall

[paul7x57mm]

I have nearly the same rig you have 33ckt with f-250 SRW 6.0 PSD. My trailer weight on tag is same as yours. My bird wheel spacing is about 1/3/4 inches. This rig is pretty heavy as far as towing is concerned but the Ford truck is built to pull them all day long, and other folks in construction industry pull much heavier loads with same type trucks. Last year, when I purchased my Cardinal trailer, it was the heaviest trailer that I ever towed. I pulled a lot of smaller trailers like my Bass Boat and can almost burn rubber taking off. My truck with the big rig takes off slow until I get some RPM's going.

A friend of mine had a turbo hose blow off and lost whole bunch of power. My turbo meter has run as high as about 32-33 psi

[Samsbird]

J, just checking to see if you got your 6.0 problem resolved and if so what did you find?

Randall

[snoking]

I'm going to answer some of your questions in the order of my experience.

1) The space between the tires.
I have this exact same situation. I have a 2005 29WBLX with the same wheels and tires as yours -- and these are the wheels and tires specified on the VIN plate. HOWEVER there are two things working here to decrease (or increase) that space between the tires.

The first is that not all tires with the same size specifications are actually the same outer diameter. The rim diameters are exactly the same -- otherwise the tires wouldn't fit on the rims. But the actual outside diameters of various tires made by the different manufacturers vary. I don't know why this is so -- and I don't think it should be so -- but it is. And here's my "proof."

Go to Michelin's website and look up your tire size for the Michelin XPS RIB. This is generally the highest rated and most respected tire for trailers. Find the specifications and write down the diameter they list. Then go to BF Goodrich's website and look up the same tire size for their Commercial T/A tire and find the diameter -- and note the difference! The Michelin XPS RIB is nearly an inch larger in diameter as I remember! And get this -- Michelin owns BF Goodrich.

My trailer came with Chinese made Kenda tires -- the same size. They had barely an inch of space between them. I was so concerned with this narrow space I didn't want to put on XPS RIB tires because I was afraid they'd be too large and rub against each other. So for this and other reasons I went with the smaller (and much cheaper) BF Goodrich Commercial T/A tires -- and guess what? They're slightly smaller than the original Kendas so the gap between my tires is now a bit wider than it was off the assembly line.

The other reason I believe we're having these problems is that many Cardinal trailers were originally designed for 15" wheels -- and came with 15" wheels and tires as standard equipment. But one of the optional upgrades was to 16" wheels and tires. The suspension was designed for 15" wheels and tires, but the larger ones just barely fit -- so they offered them.

What I don't know is whether the distance between the axles is adjustable or not. I'll have to crawl under there to make sure, but I think the axles are held on by large "U" bolts -- and for alignment purposes, they can probably be moved a bit -- perhaps as much as an inch. But if so, this is NOT something you should attempt because it would screw-up the alignment and the trailer wouldn't track perfectly behind your truck any more. If the axle spacing can be changed, it should be done by a wheel alignment shop I think.

2) Towing Hard
I get the feeling that this is your first large heavy trailer. Yes it's possible you have dragging brakes or maybe even some other problem. But I suspect that you just don't realize how heavy these trailers are and that even though the powerful diesel engines can tow them at 55, 65 and even 70 mph -- it's HARD work!

Do you have an onboard computer that shows you "instant MPG?" If so, switch to that mode and see how hard the engine has to work. When I'm not towing, my truck usually indicates around 25 mpg at 60 mph on the level. But when I'm towing this trailer, the Instant MPG drops to around 14-16 mpg at 55 mph on the level -- and as low as 4 mpg when going up hills.

I'm not familiar with Ford trucks (I have a GMC with the Allison transmission), but I'm pretty sure your truck has some sort of "Tow/Haul" mode for the transmission. Mine has a button on the end of the shift lever and when I push it I get an icon on the dashboard that looks like a trailer. When you put the transmission into Tow/Haul mode, it changes the shift points so the transmission stays in low gears longer -- which is easier and better for the engine.

When you're towing a heavy trailer you MUST put the transmission into Tow/Haul mode -- or whatever Ford calls it.

My guess is that your brakes are not dragging because if they were you'd have probably already burned them up! But you should have them checked anyway.

I hope this has been helpful.

For the 235's rib 32 ta 31.4, so you have .6 less room between tires. I have an early 2005 29WBLX and have 1.5 to 2 inches between 235 ribs. Chris