31-RK Water Leak?
31-RK Water Leak?
OK, OK, I know, we were taking a big chance by trying to use this thing through the cold Colorado winter, at 9,300 feet no less.
So far, all systems have performed well, despite the conditions.
But when the water pump stopped working, I had a look around to see what was up. When I opened up the enclosed storage compartment, on the left side where the pump is, I noticed that all the carpeting on the floor of the storage area is wet. I figure the water pipe froze somewhere in its pressurized section and burst. But I don't know that for sure.
My next step is going to be to remove the screws that seem to be holding that floor section (again, the bottom of the storage compartment) down. Does this sound like a good idea?
Does it also sound right that the line could have frozen. The trailer has had heat on at all times, and the tank heaters have been on as well. But we have already had some outside temps around 10 below. Should I be looking at putting some heat tape somewhere under there?
Thanks in advance for any useful information.
So far, all systems have performed well, despite the conditions.
But when the water pump stopped working, I had a look around to see what was up. When I opened up the enclosed storage compartment, on the left side where the pump is, I noticed that all the carpeting on the floor of the storage area is wet. I figure the water pipe froze somewhere in its pressurized section and burst. But I don't know that for sure.
My next step is going to be to remove the screws that seem to be holding that floor section (again, the bottom of the storage compartment) down. Does this sound like a good idea?
Does it also sound right that the line could have frozen. The trailer has had heat on at all times, and the tank heaters have been on as well. But we have already had some outside temps around 10 below. Should I be looking at putting some heat tape somewhere under there?
Thanks in advance for any useful information.
- Shields
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: Michigan Dorr
- Cardinal Owners: 31 RK LE
- Location: Michigan Dorr
We just left Bailey area at about 8300 feet about a week ago.
Here is what we did. The first night there temps went down to 7 degrees, or thereabouts. The line from the fresh tank to the pump had frozen up.
We then created the hillbilly hotel by making a skirt out of 1" foam board and put a light underneath the drain pipe junction. By that afternoon we were still frozen so I took a 5 gallon fresh water bottle and put it in the hold, stuck the hose for the antifreeze line into it, switched the valve on the inlet of the pump and used that for fresh. By the next day we had thawed out and I continued using the Cardinal fresh tank. I kept the lights on in the hold for extra heat, we blocked two registers in the trailer to force more heat into the hold. One other night it got down to -3 and I had forgotten to close my foam hillbilly door so guess what? So, back to my 5 gal bottle, but I filled the fresh tank with warm water and in 5 minutes we were thawed out. I would doubt you have a leaky line other than a connector being loose.
We stayed cozy inside the trailer and I would suspect we have a blanket missing on the tank or a line misrouted to a cold spot. But keep heat in that hold and put up a skirt. I am confident we could have stayed the winter, if he had wanted to. Came back to good old warm Michigan.![Happy :)](./images/smilies/1.gif)
Here is what we did. The first night there temps went down to 7 degrees, or thereabouts. The line from the fresh tank to the pump had frozen up.
We then created the hillbilly hotel by making a skirt out of 1" foam board and put a light underneath the drain pipe junction. By that afternoon we were still frozen so I took a 5 gallon fresh water bottle and put it in the hold, stuck the hose for the antifreeze line into it, switched the valve on the inlet of the pump and used that for fresh. By the next day we had thawed out and I continued using the Cardinal fresh tank. I kept the lights on in the hold for extra heat, we blocked two registers in the trailer to force more heat into the hold. One other night it got down to -3 and I had forgotten to close my foam hillbilly door so guess what? So, back to my 5 gal bottle, but I filled the fresh tank with warm water and in 5 minutes we were thawed out. I would doubt you have a leaky line other than a connector being loose.
We stayed cozy inside the trailer and I would suspect we have a blanket missing on the tank or a line misrouted to a cold spot. But keep heat in that hold and put up a skirt. I am confident we could have stayed the winter, if he had wanted to. Came back to good old warm Michigan.
![Happy :)](./images/smilies/1.gif)
Al and Nadine
Cardinal 31RK, 2006
2009 Dodge Cummins 3500 Dually.
Dorr, Michigan
Cardinal 31RK, 2006
2009 Dodge Cummins 3500 Dually.
Dorr, Michigan
Hi Mike, I had a leak in the same area when I was at a campground with unusually high water pressure. I found leaks at a couple of the pipe connectors in the area of the pump and filter. Once I re-tightened the couplers all was well. You should be able to find the leak if you can pressurize the lines. I ran a fan directed at the wet carpet to dry it out. It took a could of days and that was in the summer.
Have you determined why the water pump isn't working? Remember there's a pressure switch near the pump and don't forget to check the fuse.
Rob
Have you determined why the water pump isn't working? Remember there's a pressure switch near the pump and don't forget to check the fuse.
Rob
Al (Nadine?),
Thanks for the information. I already have a skirt around the perimeter of the trailer and heat tape on the waste pipe junction (was having problems with "water" leaking past the individual tank valves and freezing in the junction, in front of the final valve and cap).
Tell me more about what you mean when you "kept the lights on in the hold for extra heat". Please tell me which lights you're referring to. I'd definitely like to do that, too.
And as for finding my leak, should I remove the floor of the storage compartment to look for it?
Rob, I don't think my problem is at the area of the pump--but I'll have another look. I didn't actually see any moisture in the area where the pump is located--just wet carpeting on the floor of the compartment.
Another clue? When I turn on the pump switch, I hear a "humming" sound coming from the pump area. Once I figure out where the leak is, I'll check the pressure switch. All the fuses are good.
Thanks to you both.
Thanks for the information. I already have a skirt around the perimeter of the trailer and heat tape on the waste pipe junction (was having problems with "water" leaking past the individual tank valves and freezing in the junction, in front of the final valve and cap).
Tell me more about what you mean when you "kept the lights on in the hold for extra heat". Please tell me which lights you're referring to. I'd definitely like to do that, too.
And as for finding my leak, should I remove the floor of the storage compartment to look for it?
Rob, I don't think my problem is at the area of the pump--but I'll have another look. I didn't actually see any moisture in the area where the pump is located--just wet carpeting on the floor of the compartment.
Another clue? When I turn on the pump switch, I hear a "humming" sound coming from the pump area. Once I figure out where the leak is, I'll check the pressure switch. All the fuses are good.
Thanks to you both.
- Shields
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: Michigan Dorr
- Cardinal Owners: 31 RK LE
- Location: Michigan Dorr
the pump hums if it has no water supply, not the usual hard pumping sound.
The lights are the lights in the hold on the toggle switch. Any heat at all is good. You can also plug in an accessory light or heater in there. I would gues your freezeup is in the inlet to your pump line. Fill your tank with hot or warm water and see if it clears up.
I don't know what kind of water supply you have available. I was lucky enough to be at my daughter's and hooked up to the laundry tub and ran warm water. Helped a lot
I am taking the pan off, when warm weather arrives because my best bet is that the suction line from the tank to the pump freezes at the tank outlet. It is probably not an area that the blankets protect.
Good luck. I know what you are going through. But the warm water trick just might pull you through.
If you try the bucket and short line that is for anti freaze addition you will get the pump reprimed and possibly find the leak. I would almost put a box of donuts on a loose connection. That tubing is pretty forgiving on freeze up.
Where are you in Colorado?
The lights are the lights in the hold on the toggle switch. Any heat at all is good. You can also plug in an accessory light or heater in there. I would gues your freezeup is in the inlet to your pump line. Fill your tank with hot or warm water and see if it clears up.
I don't know what kind of water supply you have available. I was lucky enough to be at my daughter's and hooked up to the laundry tub and ran warm water. Helped a lot
I am taking the pan off, when warm weather arrives because my best bet is that the suction line from the tank to the pump freezes at the tank outlet. It is probably not an area that the blankets protect.
Good luck. I know what you are going through. But the warm water trick just might pull you through.
If you try the bucket and short line that is for anti freaze addition you will get the pump reprimed and possibly find the leak. I would almost put a box of donuts on a loose connection. That tubing is pretty forgiving on freeze up.
Where are you in Colorado?
Al and Nadine
Cardinal 31RK, 2006
2009 Dodge Cummins 3500 Dually.
Dorr, Michigan
Cardinal 31RK, 2006
2009 Dodge Cummins 3500 Dually.
Dorr, Michigan
- Olbird
- Council, Asst. Admin
- Posts: 4185
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:29 pm
- Location: Washington Kelso
- Cardinal Owners: 3850 RL
- Location: Washington, LaCenter
You canot get to the tanks or water line from the compartment flooring without doing plywood cutting.
The underbelly metal is what you remove to gain access to lines and tanks.
Tanks also do not have blankets around them, they stuff house insulation around things things under the floor and on top underbelly metal as each sheet is installed.
Loose underbelly panels and open joints allow wind to move the insulation while driving causing insulation to move around on top of the metal and sometimes fly out on the road.
I am not saying you cannot gain access from the plywood floor, I am just saying how it was put together, frame first, tanks, plumbing and pipes, wires, and then plywood floor, carpet, walls, on and on and on.
Get some heat between the underbelly metal and floor anyway you can.
The underbelly metal is what you remove to gain access to lines and tanks.
Tanks also do not have blankets around them, they stuff house insulation around things things under the floor and on top underbelly metal as each sheet is installed.
Loose underbelly panels and open joints allow wind to move the insulation while driving causing insulation to move around on top of the metal and sometimes fly out on the road.
I am not saying you cannot gain access from the plywood floor, I am just saying how it was put together, frame first, tanks, plumbing and pipes, wires, and then plywood floor, carpet, walls, on and on and on.
Get some heat between the underbelly metal and floor anyway you can.
George & Julie
3850 RL Full Paint w/ TrailAir Spring Ride System, Kodiak Disc Brakes, TrailAir Tri-Glide Pin Box, Over 130 Mods
2022 Ford F450 DRW
3850 RL Full Paint w/ TrailAir Spring Ride System, Kodiak Disc Brakes, TrailAir Tri-Glide Pin Box, Over 130 Mods
2022 Ford F450 DRW
The trailer is in Gilpin County, between Black Hawk and Nederland, CO. I'm currently in Ohio, still visiting family for Christmas, but my son is in the trailer. When I get back in about a week, we'll see what we can find.
As for the water supply, the trailer is on a site where we're building a home, so we don't really have a water line to the trailer. There is a well on the site, so we periodically pump water to refill the tank.
I'll let you know what we find. Thanks again for the advice--and encouragement.
As for the water supply, the trailer is on a site where we're building a home, so we don't really have a water line to the trailer. There is a well on the site, so we periodically pump water to refill the tank.
I'll let you know what we find. Thanks again for the advice--and encouragement.
- Don Wilson
- Region Leader Admin
- Posts: 7427
- Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:27 pm
- Location: California Riverbank
- Cardinal Owners: 2019 3350
- Location: New Mexico - California
For additional heat inside the storage compartment you might try hooking a trouble light that you can leave on all the time. We used to keep one on in our pump house as I was growing up to keep the pump solenoid and well housing from freezing up. If you keep it close to the pump it will protect it from freezing and might help thaw out the lines from the fresh water tank earlier in the day.
Good Luck on the leaks but it sounds like Rob and Al have given you good advice there!
Don
Good Luck on the leaks but it sounds like Rob and Al have given you good advice there!
Don
We don't know a stranger only friends we haven't met yet!
Don
2019 Cardinal 3350RLX Luxury Edition
2014 Dodge 3500 2WD DRW Long Bed
2023 Nights Camped 33
2022 Nights Camped 24
2021 Nights Camped 46
Rallies Attended - 50
Frog - 5
Don
2019 Cardinal 3350RLX Luxury Edition
2014 Dodge 3500 2WD DRW Long Bed
2023 Nights Camped 33
2022 Nights Camped 24
2021 Nights Camped 46
Rallies Attended - 50
Frog - 5
When we were in San Antonio, we had a leak in the plastic hose fitting by the pump, it came loose. This past weekend it started again. The first time Virg had to cut the hose, now he's got to replace it before we head out again.
It's a wonder more stuff doesn't shake loose as these rv's go down the road. Be sure and check the screws and housing in the ceiling fans too!!!
It's a wonder more stuff doesn't shake loose as these rv's go down the road. Be sure and check the screws and housing in the ceiling fans too!!!
-
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:30 pm
- Location: Washington Burlington
- Cardinal Owners: Cardinal 31RKLE
- Location: Washington Burlington
I was putting insulation on my drop down drain hoses under my rig and noticed the front two long drains had the black insulation fabric cut when they installed the drop down drain pipes. They cut it about one foot, and there was no insulation on the horizontal hoses. I put house insulation in there and retaped it up. I just wonder where else there's a lack of insulation that would freeze pipes in cold weather.
Wow--minus-10 degrees--and your rig stayed warm inside? The furnace must have been running 24 hours a day!
Wow--minus-10 degrees--and your rig stayed warm inside? The furnace must have been running 24 hours a day!
2007 Cardinal 31RKLE
Hijacker 21K underfloor mount
Fifth Airborne pin box
2006 Ford F350 PSD extended cab
1990 Seaswirl fishing boat!
Kiki (the cat)
Hijacker 21K underfloor mount
Fifth Airborne pin box
2006 Ford F350 PSD extended cab
1990 Seaswirl fishing boat!
Kiki (the cat)
- Shields
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: Michigan Dorr
- Cardinal Owners: 31 RK LE
- Location: Michigan Dorr
They stay pretty toasty once warmed up throughout. and the furnace works full time, and remember that propane at high altitudes vaporizes differently so it really runs more than it would at sea level at -10. We never got to -10, only to -5 but didn't know it until we stuck our nose outside. Nice 72 inside the camper, however, we did have an electric assist plugged in also. Which was really nice the night I forgot to put a new propane tank on and we ran out. ![Happy :)](./images/smilies/1.gif)
![Happy :)](./images/smilies/1.gif)
Al and Nadine
Cardinal 31RK, 2006
2009 Dodge Cummins 3500 Dually.
Dorr, Michigan
Cardinal 31RK, 2006
2009 Dodge Cummins 3500 Dually.
Dorr, Michigan
We ran a small ceramic heater this past weekend. First time it's been cold enuff to use it!! Actually turned the furnace to off and we kept warm all night...temps down in the 30's outside. I actually liked the smaller heater as it was not noisy at all!! When the furnace is on it is so loud you have to turn the tv up....then when it kicks off...the tv bout makes you jump out your skin!! I was very impressed with that little bitty heater!!
I had a similar leak that caused the carpet under the TV cabinet to get soaked and I found the leak to be the outside shower connections underneath the cabinet. I had not drained them when I winterized the first winter and the fittings froze and broke. That may be an area for you to check out as well.
-
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:30 pm
- Location: Washington Burlington
- Cardinal Owners: Cardinal 31RKLE
- Location: Washington Burlington
The electric heater I use always is the oil filled radiator type. No fan, no noise, just hot heat waves coming out of it! Love it!
We also plug in a small fan forced heater to focus the heat at us--usually when sitting in the recliner watching a movie, etc. Oh does that feel good! Expecially when I'm not paying for the electricity!
We also plug in a small fan forced heater to focus the heat at us--usually when sitting in the recliner watching a movie, etc. Oh does that feel good! Expecially when I'm not paying for the electricity!
2007 Cardinal 31RKLE
Hijacker 21K underfloor mount
Fifth Airborne pin box
2006 Ford F350 PSD extended cab
1990 Seaswirl fishing boat!
Kiki (the cat)
Hijacker 21K underfloor mount
Fifth Airborne pin box
2006 Ford F350 PSD extended cab
1990 Seaswirl fishing boat!
Kiki (the cat)